Thai Troops Shot Italian Photographer: Police

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BANGKOK, July 23, 2012 (AFP) - Government troops are believed to have shot an Italian photographer who was killed during mass opposition street protests in 2010 in Bangkok, police told an official inquest in Thailand on Monday.

Police Colonel Suebsak Pansura, who is heading a team investigating the case, said they had questioned 47 witnesses and experts over the death of Fabio Polenghi and gathered evidence to submit to prosecutors.

"The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty," he told Bangkok's Criminal Court on the opening day of the inquest.

Polenghi was shot and killed on May 19 2010, the day when soldiers firing live ammunition stormed the anti-government "Red Shirt" protest movement's sprawling rally base in the centre of Bangkok.

Police could not find the bullet which fatally wounded him in the heart, but experts said he was shot by a high-velocity gun. The inquest will attempt to ascertain who was responsible.

Polenghi, 48, was working as a freelance photographer covering the protests in which tens of thousands of Red Shirts brought central Bangkok to a standstill for two months with demands for snap elections.

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

The kingdom, which remains deeply divided by the bloodshed, now has a new government allied to the Red Shirts' hero, fugitive former leader Thaksin Shinawatra, whose sister Yingluck is prime minister.

No soldiers or officials have been prosecuted in connection with the deaths during the unrest, prompting anger from relatives and rights groups, who say those responsible are being protected by a culture of impunity in Thailand.

Yingluck's government said in November there was clear evidence that troops were responsible for the death of another journalist during the unrest, Japanese cameraman Hiroyuki Muramoto of the Thomson Reuters news agency.

-- ?Copyright AFP 2012-07-23 | AFP News Sponsor
Published with written approval from AFP.

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...Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters...

And this does not successfully imply that ONLY soldiers had high powered rifles.
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"The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty," he told Bangkok's Criminal Court on the opening day of the inquest.

The 'believed to have been' doesn't sound too sure or convincing. As it's part of the conclusion it seems there may not be enough evidence to support this believe and further investigations will be required. IMHO
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I'm not a gun expert but were there guns being used that day that are rated as low velocity guns? Which side had them? Could a low velocity gun penetrate the heart?

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animatic, on Today, 15:37 , said:

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...Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters...

And this does not successfully imply that ONLY soldiers had high powered rifles.

No but the report implies that having talked to 47 witnesses & experts, they believe that the Thai troops shot the reporter... no amount of mincing of words changes that.

rubl, on Today, 15:39 , said:

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"The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty," he told Bangkok's Criminal Court on the opening day of the inquest.

The 'believed to have been' doesn't sound too sure or convincing. As it's part of the conclusion it seems there may not be enough evidence to support this believe and further investigations will be required. IMHO

I think the most relevant piece of information that you both seem to be deliberately missing is that "they had questioned 47 witnesses and experts over the death of Fabio Polenghi and gathered evidence to submit to prosecutors"

The comments made following these investigations are based on these, not inconsiderable number of, 47 statements! The wording used is relevant only to the fact that, as yet, this is evidence and the case has yet to be decided upon by a court of law, hence the use of words like "believed to have been", highlighted in Rubl's post... it's that old innocent until proven guilty premise which I'm sure you'd be raising had the wording been prematurely conclusive.

Clutching at straws springs to mind...

Edited by Ferangled, Today, 15:57 .

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richard10365, on Today, 15:51 , said:

I'm not a gun expert but were there guns being used that day that are rated as low velocity guns? Which side had them? Could a low velocity gun penetrate the heart?

9mm and .45 ACP are considered low velocity at around 1250 and as low as 900ft/s respectively compared to 7.62 NATO @ 2700ft/s and 5.56mm NATO at??~3000ft/s. Slow and heavy can transfer as much energy as fast and light(er) and its the energy transfer (shock) that does the damage.
Can a low velocity gun penetrate a heart? Usually it's the bullet, but yes, quite easily - and not necessarily the heart to be fatal.
Which side had them? Both, though not what you would expect from "peaceful protesters."
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OzMick, on Today, 16:05 , said:

richard10365, on Today, 15:51 , said:

I'm not a gun expert but were there guns being used that day that are rated as low velocity guns? Which side had them? Could a low velocity gun penetrate the heart?

compared to 7.62 NATO @ 2700ft/s and 5.56mm NATO at??~3000ft/s. Slow and heavy can transfer as much energy as fast
Or an AK47 at 2350 ft/s
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Regardless of the debate on here regarding what exactly "may have" happened, we find that, once again, we are provided with a very damning headline:

"Thai Army Shot Italian Photographer",

only to find within the text that:

"The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty".

How does the journalist responsible for this story move from that particular statement to the headline that we have been provided with??

It's sensationalist journalism at its worst, and fails to consider the point that a large quantity of high-velocity military weapons were seized from Army barracks, and that even now, no-one knows where these weapons are, or where they were at the time of the shooting.

So, even if it is concluded that the weapon that was used was a high-velocity weapon, there can never be any speculation that the weapon was in the hands of a soldier, unless there is solid evidence proving that, and there isn't.

BTW, I served in the British military for 22 years, and I can tell you without fear of contradiction that a low-velocity weapon, such as a 9mm pistol, can easily succeed in piercing the heart, and leave the body through a small exit wound; it would, therefore, be very useful to know what size the exit wound was. So even this point is speculative, particularly as there is no forensic evidence on the type of projectile that the unfortunate individual was struck by.

In summary, I support neither side, but I am strongly opposed to conclusions drawn based upon speculation, particularly from a group such as the Police, every single member of which was conspicuous by their lack of action, or even presence, at any time during the unfortunate events of 2010.

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'); } } May I also refer to the topic "???? Late Italian Journalist Fabio Polenghi's Case Will Go To Court In July???? "?
_{^{Here a photo of her to-days interview with local and international press in front of the Bangkok South Civil Court}}
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The situation with this case is that the reporter's widow is aligned with Robert Amsterdam and a Red shirt lawyer. Thaksin's brother in law is the chief of police and Amsterdam also represents Thaksin.

How much more conflict of interest could there be?

How many of the 47 are red shirts?

How many actually saw the reporter at the moment he was shot and can recall which direction he was in relation to the armed forces?

Unfortunately this case now stinks politically.

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Moruya, on Today, 17:15 , said:

The situation with this case is that the reporter's widow is aligned with Robert Amsterdam and a Red shirt lawyer. Thaksin's brother in law is the chief of police and Amsterdam also represents Thaksin.

How much more conflict of interest could there be?

How many of the 47 are red shirts?

How many actually saw the reporter at the moment he was shot and can recall which direction he was in relation to the armed forces?

Unfortunately this case now stinks politically.

Nice bit of spin..........................
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Ferangled, on Today, 15:56 , said:

rubl, on Today, 15:39 , said:

Quote

The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty," he told Bangkok's Criminal Court on the opening day of the inquest.

The 'believed to have been' doesn't sound too sure or convincing. As it's part of the conclusion it seems there may not be enough evidence to support this believe and further investigations will be required. IMHO

I think the most relevant piece of information that you both seem to be deliberately missing is that "they had questioned 47 witnesses and experts over the death of Fabio Polenghi and gathered evidence to submit to prosecutors"

The comments made following these investigations are based on these, not inconsiderable number of, 47 statements! The wording used is relevant only to the fact that, as yet, this is evidence and the case has yet to be decided upon by a court of law, hence the use of words like "believed to have been", highlighted in Rubl's post... it's that old innocent until proven guilty premise which I'm sure you'd be raising had the wording been prematurely conclusive.

Clutching at straws springs to mind...

"Questioned 47 witnesses and experts and gathered evidence submitted to the prosecuters". And since there's no case yet, the vague description of 'believe'

For one this is a court of inquiry, so no prosecuters involved as such. Furthermore witnesses should have been clear in what they (believed) to have seen, like 'the army was shooting' for instance. So what else is new? Red colored straws?

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'); } } ""The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty," he told Bangkok's Criminal Court on the opening day of the inquest."

give me the description of the authorities on duty, and I can find you one in a couple of days (maybe even with the same high-velocity gun...)

...

ah, feels good, ... I think I'm getting in the swing of things now...

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Tywais, on Today, 16:32 , said:

OzMick, on Today, 16:05 , said:

richard10365, on Today, 15:51 , said:

I'm not a gun expert but were there guns being used that day that are rated as low velocity guns? Which side had them? Could a low velocity gun penetrate the heart?

compared to 7.62 NATO @ 2700ft/s and 5.56mm NATO at??~3000ft/s. Slow and heavy can transfer as much energy as fast
Or an AK47 at 2350 ft/s

The Chinese copies are a little slower........
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tlansford, on Today, 20:13 , said:

""The conclusion found that the cause of his death was believed to have been a gunshot from the authorities on duty," he told Bangkok's Criminal Court on the opening day of the inquest."

give me the description of the authorities on duty, and I can find you one in a couple of days (maybe even with the same high-velocity gun...)

...

ah, feels good, ... I think I'm getting in the swing of things now...

We're really not interested in your mass debating activities,??old boy.
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Troops on the ground had M16's, small high velocity rounds. Black shirts at AK 47's, larger round. 9mm hand gun would have had to be up close. Any good forensic guy involved in an autopsy will advise what did the job.

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philw, on Today, 20:01 , said:

Moruya, on Today, 17:15 , said:

The situation with this case is that the reporter's widow is aligned with Robert Amsterdam and a Red shirt lawyer. Thaksin's brother in law is the chief of police and Amsterdam also represents Thaksin.

How much more conflict of interest could there be?

How many of the 47 are red shirts?

How many actually saw the reporter at the moment he was shot and can recall which direction he was in relation to the armed forces?

Unfortunately this case now stinks politically.

Nice bit of spin..........................
Actually I would love for the truth to come about all the deaths as well as how it was both funded and coordinated.

I may have a view on what I would hope the outcome is but the truth is what I want to see.

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'); } } Unless they can conclusively say any 'active duty army personel' did actually pull the trigger,
it is only conjecture from circumstantial evidence.

That it was a high powered rifle does not in any way mean it was
ONLY??an 'active army personel' who pulled the trigger,
since we saw only weeks before men in black, with very high powered rifles,
acting AGAINST the army.??The likelihood they 'just retired' during the siege is nil.
Even if there were many unarmed protestors, there were visibly many armed ones.
Plus snipers and counter snipers waiting opportunities.

Sadly no case is made, at this point,
and I WOULD like to know who did it, from any side, conclusively,
but there is a glaring benefit of the doubt / innocent till PROVEN guilty,
hole in this testimony you can drive a truck through.

Edited by animatic, Today, 21:10 .

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animatic, on Today, 21:08 , said:

Unless they can conclusively say any current army personel did actually pull the trigger,
it is only conjecture from circumstantial evidence.

That it was a high powered rifle does not in any way mean it was
ONLY??an 'active army personel' who pulled the trigger,
since we saw only weeks before men in black, with very high powered rifles,
acting AGAINST the army.??The likelihood they 'just retired' during the siege is nil.
Even if there were many unarmed protestors, there were visibly many armed ones.
Plus snipers and counter snipers waiting opportunities.

Sadly no case is made, at this point,
and I WOULD like to know who did it, from any side, conclusively,
but there is a glaring benefit of the doubt / innocent till PROVEN guilty,
hole in this testimony you can drive a truck through.

quite.

And imagine if someone could identify a particular soldier.

If it went to court in most countries it would be kicked out for any number of reasons that have already been posted on

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richard10365, on Today, 15:51 , said:

I'm not a gun expert but were there guns being used that day that are rated as low velocity guns? Which side had them? Could a low velocity gun penetrate the heart?

take a look at this http://www.boston.co...in_bangkok.html
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Does not matter red or yellow, people with scopes on their sniper rifles should not have difficulty in seeing who is armed and unarmed.

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Moruya, on Today, 17:15 , said:

The situation with this case is that the reporter's widow is aligned with Robert Amsterdam and a Red shirt lawyer. Thaksin's brother in law is the chief of police and Amsterdam also represents Thaksin.

How much more conflict of interest could there be?

How many of the 47 are red shirts?

How many actually saw the reporter at the moment he was shot and can recall which direction he was in relation to the armed forces?

Unfortunately this case now stinks politically.

what stinks, is your immediate thoughts that it wasn't the rta when all the evidence points otherwise.

and don't say 'unfortunately' when you don't mean it.

Edited by nurofiend, 34 minutes ago.

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Source: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/571893-thai-troops-shot-italian-photographer-police/

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